Boygenius: It's Never Over (2024)

One year ago this week, in June 2023, my friend Sarah and I, in separate cities, saw boygenius live for the first time. We reflect on our shared passion for the musical supergroup.

Emily: I remember listening to the first three singles the day they came out in 2018 on the bus home from work. At the time, I was a huge Lucy Dacus fan, a Phoebe Bridgers enjoyer, and a Julien Baker appreciator, but, together, they were magic. I really enjoyed their self-titled EP and was upset they didn’t come to D.C. on that tour. I thought I’d missed the opportunity to ever see them. It was so over! When they returned in 2023 with “the record,” I wasn’t listening to that flavor of indie rock as much anymore, so I wasn’t expecting to feel as walloped by their return, but I was. They were so back. What was your first encounter with boygenius?

Sarah: It’s such a long story! I knew about Phoebe first via internet lore. I remember feeling REALLY old (I was like 27/28) and like my life was over. She was the new indie girl, and she was cool, beautiful, and really really freaking funny. I forced myself to listen to “Punisher” summer of 2020 while putting away my laundry because I like being in the know, but I wasn’t emotionally connecting to the music (yet). I had heard of some Lucy Dacus songs and liked them (thank you Spotify algorithm!) and I knew of Julien because of a former youth group student turned fellow youth group leader, Andrew, who shared her on a playlist called “Kinda Sorta Christian” (lol). I also Googled her, saw a photo of her face, thought “Oh no,” and “I’ll shove these feelings deep down inside and think about this tomorrow.” And that’s what I did. For two years. Until summer of 2022 when I finally connected to Phoebe’s music. I was really tired, driving home from work, a new job, and decided to listen and cry to “Scott Street.” For better or worse, I’m a Pharb for life.

Back to Julien. One day after work I was sitting in my car, in the driveway, on TikTok (as one does) when a clip of Julien playing electric guitar came up. That was it, it was over. I became obsessed with the boys, separately and together. I realized I had been listening to “Bite the Hand'' for years without realizing it was them. I scrounged together interviews and clips on my phone. I had tabs open. I thought they would never get back together again. I think I manifested 2023. August of 2022 was a really good time to become a boygenius fan, ‘cause we had no clue what was coming. I saw some recorded clips of the boys in LA in November 2022 (that was to be their Rolling Stone photoshoot) and I was like WHAT? I had no one to talk to about them. Except Andrew. And later, Emily.

Emily: I’m so glad we could talk about it.

Sarah: Do you remember where you were when you heard “$20,” “Emily I’m Sorry,” and “True Blue” for the first time? Cause I do. What about “Not Strong Enough”?

Emily: I remember listening while working in my room. “Emily I’m Sorry” especially hit me because it has my name in it. It felt like getting an apology I’d always wanted but never gotten.

“Not Strong Enough” really mirrored something going on in my personal life at the time it came out, and one night while cooking I listened to that and “Strong Enough” by Sheryl Crow on repeat. Highly recommend it. How about you?

Sarah: I remember essentially messaging you and dying because somehow the boys always did a surprise drop on Wednesday afternoons, right before I was set to drive an hour to work and then lead a Teen Advisory Board meeting. I could think of nothing else. Andrew and I messaged each other “This is not a drill!” when Pheebs first posted on her Instagram. From the opening notes of “$20” I was like “Oh they’re having FUN.” Specifically JB. I need to be careful when listening to Julien’s solo work; it can put me in a really dark place even though I love it and relate to most of it. But with those first three singles I was like, “Let’s go girls (boys).” With “Not Strong Enough,” you could see my brain lighting up like a Christmas tree. I couldn’t quite hear the lyrics the first time around, so I was like, “Did JB just reference ‘Drag Race?’” Lol. That music video is still an instant distillation of joy.

Emily: I loved sharing so many boygenius interviews with you in the lead up to the album release last spring. What are your favorite interview moments? Mine is when they got tube socks from Aldi to go with their Gucci suits and made a joke that Aldi and Gucci were “Italian excellence.” I also loved when Lucy mispronounced the word “adage.”

Sarah: Emily this was from the radio interview you sent me! “Sound Opinions.” It’s one of my all-time favorite bg interviews, out of so so many. I think I made a friendship bracelet that just said “Adage.” Lol. Update: I did not make an “Adage” friendship bracelet, alas. I made one that said “Dave Grohl.” And another that said “Thank You” based on that one JB photo from the Wild Hearts tour. But there’s still time! Maybe when I see you in July.

Emily: I want an Adage bracelet. French excellence? Not Dave Grohl! You know how I feel about him!!

Sarah: I have to think a little more about interviews. I’m a hoarder. All the Gayotic episodes are so fun and truly chaotic. That one interview, maybe the Teen Vogue one after they dressed in drag for their Nashville show when JB mentioned that young people need books that are “windows, mirrors, and sliding glass doors” meant the world to me because we learned about that quote in library and info science school. Update: This is probably not it but still. Good interview!

Emily: I think that’s it! I loved learning about that concept and hearing what books filled those roles for you.

Sarah: Do you think we will ever read all the books the boys have referenced?

Emily: I wish! They seem like such voracious readers. Did you read anything because of them? I discovered Hanif Abdurraqib because he wrote the essay announcing Julien’s album “Little Oblivions.” Life-changing.

Sarah: In classic me fashion, I saved a bunch of articles and joined a Fable boygenius reading club, and then fell off haha. I have had some of their book recs on my list for years and I did get halfway through “Nightbitch” and really enjoyed it! But it was due at the library. I need to get it again. I did have the extreme privilege of notifying one of my all-time favorite writers, Leslie Jamison, that Lucy was reading her book “The Recovering: Intoxication and Its Aftermath,” in a snap provided by Phoebe. Leslie responded on Twitter! She was touched. That book has meant a lot to me and helped me understand more of my family lineage and addiction. It inspired what might be one of the two tattoos I will ever get, a quote by Tess Gallagher to her deceased husband Raymond Carver: “Life is still amazing and you are my precious cargo.”

Do you remember when you broke down the boys’ musical influences for me when they shared that one inspo playlist?

Emily: That playlist was so fun. It was so clear to me who picked some of the songs. Others, less so.

Sarah: The Nardwuar interview was so cute and fun. JB: “I’m having a That’s So Raven moment right now.” Lucy: “You mean a memory?” Boygenius are some of the best of neurodiverse folks and the best of queer folks.

Emily: What about favorite memories from live performances? Mine is obviously not anything I saw personally but when they first performed “Boyfriends” at Forest Hills.

Sarah: I honestly found each and every one of their live performances to be like, this special jewel. Some of my happiest memories were of waking up the next day and scouring Twitter for clips of the “Salt in the Wound” shenanigans and sending it to you. The night that JB scooped up Phoebe and kissed her and I sent it to you like “Phoebe got the big account!” Because it was usually so much of Phoebe macking on Lucy and Lucy making out with JB (RIP).

We got so much beauty in each of their live performances. I know that we didn’t wanna get spoiled before the record came out, but do you remember their tiny NYC performance? Where they debuted “Cool About It” and the grey suits? It was for a charity, I think. And the first time we ever saw their full production and full set at Coachella?

Emily: The Coachella set was so good. I remember trying so hard to stay awake for it because it was on the later end here and falling asleep. What was it like seeing boygenius live?

Sarah: It didn’t make sense to my brain. It still doesn’t. Like the first time I drove a car, I was like “This isn’t real, this is a video game.” My sister didn’t enjoy the MSG show as much because she was seated next to a girl who kept bumping into her and screaming in her ear, but we both agreed that the Forest Hills show was just really special. I saw them like a day after you saw them, Emily! We were connected. It was right after my graduation and in the middle of a really bad season of work. I got horribly sick afterwards from all the nerves and excitement and I was sick all summer, but it was worth it.

Emily: We were connected! I saw them at Merriweather Post Pavilion as part of the Re:Set festival. It was a really beautiful night, one of the longest days of the year. I was so hoping they would play “Boyfriends” after seeing someone on Twitter share a video of them rehearsing, but they didn’t play it until the Forest Hills show. I really enjoyed how cinematic the show was and how well-directed the footage was on the video screens; and it was dynamic to watch even from the lawn seats. I haven’t gone to a show with so much production value in a long time.

Sarah: I know the answer but: fave musical performance collab? Muna, Billie Eilish, Turnstile, etc.

Emily: You know it was that Rock en Seine performance with Brendan Yates from Turnstile, when Julien also sang “UNDERWATER BOI.” How about you?

Sarah. It’s gotta be the first ever Coachella MUNAgenius “Silk Chiffon”. Andrew messaged me “!!!!” when they were live, and I hopped on the stream and then of course watched clips. JB running like a bat out of hell, lol. When the boys showed up dressed as MUNA, that was a close second. I love their bond.

Who do you want to see them sing with next? I wanted to see Ethel Cain come out for Salt in the Wound. I would also love to see a Chappell visit. JB doing the dance to “Hot to Go” would heal me. But they don’t have to do anything really!

Emily: Merle Haggard’s hologram. Where is that photo of Julien in the “Mama Tried” shirt?

Sarah: Incredible. Favorite configuration of the boys’ uniform?

Emily: I loved the grey suits, and I loved the white suits with the pink carnations at the Grammys as a tribute to Elliott Smith. How about you?

SM: I loved little pieced-together moments, like Phoebe in a black vest with nothing on underneath and her little pleated skirt. Lucy rolling up her shirtsleeves, getting to see JB’s arms IRL. An honor and a privilege.

I bought a lot of merch last year and I didn’t really have the money for it. Fave piece of boys merch? What did you think of the boys’ Catbird and Baggu collaborations and the intersection of art and commerce?

Emily: I didn’t buy any merch. I waited in line too long to buy a sweatshirt when I saw them, and it was out of stock in my size. I remember a lot of their merch being on the expensive end. What do you think?

Sarah: Emily, I have So. Much. Merch. Unfortunately, the black hoodie sweatshirt is very comfortable, but I try not to wear it too much. I’m scared of ruining my merch. The shirt I wear the most is the pink “Always An Angel” t-shirt. It’s very comfortable and not like, as loud as some of their merch, lol. I’m afraid of people looking at me askew in public and I like to blend in unless I’m at a venue where I think I might bump into other fans. A safe space, if you will. I love my Monster Truck t-shirt and I love my Three of Cups t-shirt, which I wore proudly to Forest Hills. I’m glad I didn’t cave with their Catbird collab because I can’t afford it, and I already bought myself the Phoebe moonstone as a grad school push present.

It was just info overload for all of 2023, you know it too. By the time we ended with the Hollywood Bowl on Halloween, and I guessed that maybe they would dress as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I think you and I were just wiped out, lol.

Emily: I can’t believe you predicted that. It felt so surreal when it came true. Any other favorite moments?

Sarah: All of their photoshoots! Brokeback Mountain, Marie Antoinette, the Skater Boys. And all the BTS photos that are now wiped from Lucy and Phoebe’s Instagrams (I’m so glad I saved them and I’m thankful for the teens on the internet, who continue to dredge up old JB interviews. They are doing the Lord’s work.)

Can you believe the boys were on SNL? Would you like to see more acting, more sketch comedy or late-night appearances from the boys? Chicken Shop Date, etc.

Emily: I would like to see more acting! We just saw Phoebe in “I Saw the TV Glow,” and she was stunning. I think a drama with all three of them would be incredible. A sequel to “the film!” How about you?

Sarah: I think acting could bring about another angle of truth and expression from the boys. I think they are all naturally funny. For drama, who knows. I think I can only see them as themselves, especially Phoebe and Lucy, but I could actually see JB in a small role in a drama! Maybe a Tegan and Sara or Tig Notaro production. I can’t imagine a sequel to the film. I can barely watch it now. KStew, the person you are…

Emily: If you were a boy, which one would you be?

Sarah: I’m none of them! I certainly struggle with self-love and confidence like JB but I’m not as smart or funny as any of the boys and I have to accept that. I really hope that Lucy would like me, and we could talk about books and stuff. I think she and I experience some emotions in similar ways.

Emily: Shut up, you are so smart and funny! I think I connect most with Lucy because I also grew up religious and was used to being the tallest one of all my friends. I remember on the “Better Yet" podcast she told a story about doing karaoke at a sleepover in middle school, and all the girls had high-pitched voices, and she, with her low, rich voice, chose “Big Girls Don’t Cry” by Fergie. I could absolutely relate to that story, just being a bigger girl with a big voice. I didn’t really know what to do with it at that age and wished I could be like all the other girls. In the same podcast, she talked about her experience in church and theater growing up and the common thread of storytelling that ran through those experiences and her music. I like that. We’re both storytellers.

Sarah: I’m a few years older than you, but what do you think it would’ve been like if we had been friends at different ages and different stages and we’d had the boys and the record back then? I think A LOT about how I wouldn’t have been allowed to listen to the boys as a teen and how my parents would have been scared about what it all meant. Just seeing a female or just non-cis male person rock out on the guitar has been so life changing for me personally.

I also really loved that one piece about the boys penned by an older queer writer. She said that she was connecting with older folks in the audience at their Forest Hills show and saying that she felt seen. Boygenius is for the kids, but it’s also for us older folks! (This is bringing up that one YouTube interview: “When I hear 5,000 little gay kids scream ‘Kill the bourgeoisie…’”)

Emily: I think if I’d had Lucy Dacus to look up to when I was in middle school, I would have felt so much more comfortable in my skin! Like you can be an alto in the back row of the chorus and still be cool. I listened to a lot of powerful pop women as a tween, but when I became a teenager and got more into alternative and indie music, I pretty much only listened to men. It would have been so cool to have boygenius then.

Sarah: Do you listen to the boys when you’re sad, happy or both?

Emily: A secret third thing (anxious or delusional, or recovering from feeling anxious or delusional). How about you?

Sarah: I will admit, it’s hard to go through the ups and downs of the emotions. The highs are high, and the lows are low. It’s hard to listen neutrally.

Emily: Agreed. If you could only listen to three boygenius songs for the rest of your life, what would they be?

Sarah: I really should say “True Blue,” “Anti-Curse,” and “Powers” because those songs have deeply affected me, but the truth is I like to dance and shake my ass so I’m gonna say “Not Strong Enough,” “Satanist,” and “Salt in the Wound.”

Emily: It’s so important to shake your ass. I think I would pick “Not Strong Enough,” “$20,” and “Souvenir.” Honorable mention to “Cool About It.” That song came on recently when I was in the car with my friends and their sleeping toddler, and I started weeping. I don’t want the baby to ever have to be “cool about it!”

Sarah: Where does “the rest” fit in with you, for the boys’ lexicon, do you think it was inspired by their time together?

Emily: I don’t listen to “the rest” as much as I should. It just feels like a big sigh. I should listen to “Powers” more. How about you?

Sarah: “Powers” stirs something in me that I haven’t felt since 2013, listening to a grainy live version of “I Want You to Love Me” by Fiona Apple on YouTube. A great thrumming undercurrent to the universe. That, plus their holiday cover of “The Parting Glass” dedicated to Phoebe’s dad and Shuhada' Sadaqat, born Sinéad O’Connor, I just have to be careful. Those songs open a portal for sure.

If we ever went to LA together, where do you think we would be mostly likely to bump into the boys? Would you say hi? I think I’d be too scared and want to give them their privacy. Sometimes I scan the trees to see if JB is sitting in one.

Emily: I feel like we’d see them at a cafe, and I’d probably say a quick hello like a huge dork, and then promptly spill something on myself.

Sarah: Do you believe that boygenius exists outside of space and time? Because I definitely do. What does that mean for you?

Emily: Like God? Tell me more. But also, yes. I’ve had a lot of big feelings reflecting on where we were last year in the height of our mania. When “the record” came out, there were a lot of thinkpieces about the band and friendship. The big crux of the record is knowing someone so well and loving them anyway. I felt emotional because I didn’t feel like anyone could both know me and love me, and I didn’t feel so great about my friendships at the moment, but that doesn’t mean I’d always feel that way. And you know what, now I do feel better. I think boygenius gives me hope that people can grow and change for the better.

Sarah: Haha I don’t know if I can tell you more. It’s like reading a poem. I know it when I feel it. Like being struck by lightning. I can’t break the poem down beat by beat, I can’t read music, etc. But I know it when I feel it. I am so glad that we are both surviving our feelings as best we can!

Emily: What do you want from boygenius in the future?

Sarah: They’ve given us so much. They’ve given us so much! I don’t know what else they could possibly give us. “I never thought you’d happen to me.” I’m crying now! Okay fine!! Emily and I want “Boyfriends” recorded! We want to stream! We want to buy the vinyl! We are your humble fans and devoted servants. Sincerely, Emily and Sarah.

Emily: Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Crisis of Your Creating is on vacation next week. Send me your San Diego recommendations! I’ll be back in your inbox at the end of June with a reflection on an eventful trip to the movies.