Metagame - SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [NEW TIERING RESULTS POST 11597] (2024)

This is meant to be a metagame analysis than a guide or discussion. This format is based off the style of many ORAS UU posts. If can check them out right here, they helped me understand ORAS UU and inspired my posts. Anyways, onto the actual topic. The tides are rough with three powerful offensive Waters in the tier. Originally this mantle was taken by Watershifu in Gen 8, Ash Gren in Gen 7, Keldeo in Gens 5-6, and Starmie in Gens 4-1. Now we have three offensive waters that have been garnering excellent results on ladder and tours like OLT/ST/SPL. Part of what has made them successful in the first place is that bulky waters like Slowbro and Toxapex were heavily nerfed in Gen 9. Also some strong Water resists like Ferrothorn and Tangrowth were flat out removed. While the tier isn’t short of Water type checks, their unique attributes and secondary typings are what allowed them to dominate SV OU. To the point where slotting in 2 of them at the same team is not unheard of.

The Big Ocean
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(good wogre sprites dont exist)
Beware the Ogre:
-Wogre has been a controversial mon since DLC1.

-When DLC2 released, it was believed that Wogre had fallen off due to new additions like Raging Bolt, Kyurem, Hydrapple, and Archaludon. However once new toy syndrome wore off and Arch was banned, Wogre made a huge comeback, becoming one of the best mons in the tier.

-Its presence is arguably more potent with Amoonguss being less common due to the Sleep ban.

-The main selling point is Wogre’s Grass/Water typing, which factors in both its offensive and defensive profile. The Wellspring Mask acts as a permanent Booster Energy, which brings Wogre’s decent base 120 Atk close to 148 base Atk. It is what I consider to be the Kartana of Gen 9. The centralizing nature puts a strain on Balance teams due to its raw power. Ivy Cudgel is a base 100 Water move with no drawbacks, doesn’t even make contact.

-Wogre made its strive in DLC2 with a set of Swords Dance, STABs, and Play Rough or Encore. However Wogre has tested the waters with other options. Pivot sets, Knock Off which can cripple Fat teams in conjunction with Spikes while being a response to the sudden high usage of Sinistcha. Even Spikes were seen on Wogre due to its natural ability to force switches and matchup with Tusk.

-Defensively, Wogre provides value in checking Tusk and also Volc via Tera Water. Absorbing Knock Off, and also preventing Mola from freely spamming Flip Turn.

The Last Samurott:
-Samurott-H is what inspired me to make this post. I find it to be one of the most well-designed and fun mons introduced.

-It has the stats of an NU mon, but with one of the best moves in the game, Ceaseless Edge, allowing Samu to create Spikes, not affected by Magic Bounce or Taunt. This groundbreaking X factor is what has put Samurott on the map.

-It’s not just a Spike machine however, Sharpness boosts the BP of moves like Razor Shell, Ceaseless, and Sacred Sword by 1.5x, allowing it to keep up with offensive monsters like Kingambit. Samu also packs excellent utility with Encore, Knock Off, and Flip Turn which perfectly complements its toolkit. Encore in particular is a big move vs Gambit and defensive teams.

-We’ve seen this with BO builds utilizing Boots Encore Samu. Despite having 2 priority moves, the most common sets don’t run them. I think Samurott has several sets or variants it can run.

-Scarf Samu is a set that improves its matchup with Offense, surprising mons like Dragapult. Tera Fighting Sacred Sword is an option that picks off surprise kills on Kyurem and AoA Darkrai while dealing big damage to Zamazenta.

-Lum Swords Dance can punish Mola and Gliscor for staying in. +2 Sucker Punch can also catch offensive threats off-guard. With Tera Dark, it can even one shot Rillaboom and Wogre after chip.

-Sub-Encore is a cool set that can punish Mola and also blank Garganacl. Substitute also synergizes excellently with Encore. Thus ruining alot of Balance teams. Assault Vest is really nice for improving Samu’s defensive utility. Living Darkrai’s Focus Blast, being a more reliable Ghold check, among other things.

-Choice Band is niche but fun as hell. Lets you 2HKO targets like Skarmory, Corviknight, and Amoonguss while Tera Dark outright 2HKOs Mola.

-It is one of my favorite mons to use on BO and even Balance. Its nearly unresisted offensive typing, Ceaseless Edge and ability to run different items over Wogre allowed it to thrive in this meta.

Part Of OU’s World:
-Primarina being one of the best mons in the tier was a surprise. For two generations, it was outclassed by Tapu Fini and unable to break defensive titans like Ferrothorn or Toxapex. It was also threatened offensively by Koko and Kartana.

-With all of these weighing it down being gone, Primarina was able to swim up to the top, being OU for the first time since Pre-DLC SS OU.

-It is an OU staple not propelled by ridiculous tools like Samu’s Ceaseless Edge or Wogre’s no drawback Water STAB, but rather honestly with its great typing and stats.

-Like its watery brother and sister, Primarina is incredibly threatening offensively this time around, its high SpA and Water/Fairy STAB. Only really checked defensively by Blissey, WA Clodsire, Glowking, Amoonguss, and Volcanion.

-Psychic Noise is a new addition to Prima’s toolkit that is either coverage or a STAB option with Liquid Voice that prevents recovery from defensive stalwarts.

-The most common set is Calm Mind which has excellent role compression and with Tera, can outright 6-0 unprepped teams.

-Options like Draining Kiss and Encore also pop up every so often. Assault Vest variants require support and fit on only specific teams, but can trade with offensive teams. Choice Specs is rare but can OHKO targets like Wogre after rocks and has few switch ins, but imo it is a bit redundant since Prima is already annoying to switch into and misses out on passive recovery with Lefties, surprise kills with Custap, or the Spikes immunity with Boots.

-Prima pairs nicely with many offensive threats like Volcarona, Kingambit, Wogre, Samurott, Raging Bolt, etc, making it a staple on Bulky Offense. The ability to switch between offensive and defensive os unmatched by most of the tier and remains a strong team player in any matchup.

-It trades with offense, breaks holes vs Balance and Stall, sh*ts on Sun/Rain, and can prevent many cheese strats like Trick Room.

-What makes it stand out is how honest it is compared to the other OU titans like I said earlier. It reminds me of Offensive Swampert in ADV or Volcanion in ORAS, and I think Prima fulfills a healthy role in the tier.

Waters Slowly Lost To The Current
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This is dedicated to the mons that have fallen off, but still find usage in SV OU.

The Wake That Lost Its Sea Legs:
-With Sun declining in usage, it is natural that Walking Wake would follow. Sun does still see use, especially on mid ladder, but Sun is not accounted for in the builder like it used to.

-Part of the reason is that Sun has several bad matchups that are frequently seen on teams. Primarina can Sub on Torkoal and trade with whatever switches in.

-Raging Bolt and Kingambit’s priority is polarizing for Sun to handle, even with measures like Great Tusk. It’s hard to click Hydro Steam with the presence of Wogre.

-Earthquakes and Headlong Rushes are incredibly annoying to navigate around due to the archetype lacking Ground immunes on many builds. Glowking is an infamous matchup due to its ability to sponge Wake’s hits with Tera Water and pivot out to reset the weather.

-With the right Tera, Volcarona can outright 6-0 Sun. Dragonite is another annoying matchup, especially if Wake can’t click Draco comfortably.

-This is not to say Sun can’t play around its bad matchups, because it absolutely can, as observed through success on the ladder and tours, but the archetype no longer stands close to the forefront.

A Glow Turned Dimmer:
-Manaphy has taken a steep fall from DLC1 where it was considered potentially suspect worthy, however it has seen success on Webs which risen in popularity since March.

-With Tera Fairy and Tail Glow/Scald/Alluring Voice/E-Ball or Ice Beam, it can break holes vs Balance teams that have been on the rise.

-Manaphy has also seen brief appearences on Rain to abuse Hydration + Rest to go full out on Fat teams.

-It does face competition with Primarina who’s better vs Offense while being threatening without a boost. Manaphy’s higher speed tier does get the jump on Lando, Tusk, Ghold, Kyurem, and Glimm.

Is It Grenover?:
-Early on in Gen 9’s meta, Greninja first found success as a fast wallbreaker that threatened common staples like Tusk, Garg, and Ghold with its STABs.

-In Home, it found a place in the tier over Wake as a cleaner thanks to the reworks to Battle Bond now giving it a +1 boost to Atk, SpA, and Speed. Even in DLC1 where Wogre and Rilla roam around freely, Greninja managed to make it into OU, but something happened in DLC2.

-Primarina was not only competition to Greninja, but also a check. Raging Bolt had strong priority and could switch into it once or twice. Greninja also had competition with Darkrai who was stronger, faster, bulkier, and had several toys to play with like Wisp or Knock Off.

-Roaring Moon being unbanned also means Ice Beam is a near requirement.

-Greninja is also more picky with Teras and unfortunately it doesn’t have a Tera it can stick to in response to priority.

-Ice Beam also means Water Shuriken is harder to splash, especially since it would need Gunk Shot to bypass Primarina.

-It is certainly not a bad Pokemon. Greninja has proven to do well into certain builds and in the right conditions it could sweep, but it is more inconsistent and harder to justify when looking at its competition.

-I believe a mixed set with Surf/D-Pulse/Ice Beam/Gunk Shot is the way to go with Greninja.

The Bridge Has Fallen:
-It is impossible not to talk about offensive water types without mentioning Rain.

-While the archetype is still viable, like with Sun, the hay-day of Rain is over ever since Archaludon left the meta. Arch leaving also resulted in Wogre skyrocketing in usage, making Barra’s Water STAB harder to spam and Wogre also blasts through with boosted Ivy Cudgels.

-Without Arch, Rilla is less trivial for Rain to check. Like Sun, Rain also gets annoyed by strong priority from Raging Bolt and Kingambit.

-Compared to how it was in the Arch meta or even all the way back in Gen 7 or 8, Rain has a higher skill cap. Rain teams need innovative pathways like Moltres to check Rilla or AV Goodra who acts as a bootleg Archaludon. Rain is also strong vs HO and even Webs since Barra outspeeds them even with Webs up.

-I am less qualified to talk about Rain. So Delibird Heart, this one’s all your’s.

This is for the more niche offensive waters that managed to find a role among these contentious threats or have potential to find one.

Spewing Hot Water:
-Out of the rest of these, Volcanion finds the most success.

-It has had a back and forth period throughout SV OU, but lately Volcanion has found its footing as a trapper with defensive utility. Fire Spin + Taunt can take down walls like Glowking, Blissey, Clodsire, and Alomomola.

-Volcanion also fixes two difficult matchups for Balance, those being Primarina and Mola + Breaker builds.

-Not only does Volcanion block Flip Turn, but it also threatens to trap something on its team. Some Molas have responded to this with Mirror Coat, but using that often means losing out on Protect or other options.

-Vs Primarina, Volcanion is capable of avoiding a 2HKO from even a +1 Moonblast and 3HKOing back with Sludge Bomb.

-Volcanion also has other niches like helping teams pivot around Specs Kyurem and Wogre, or spreading Burns with Steam Eruption and Will O Wisp. making it valuable for checking Kingambit.

-Tera Ghost also helps with the Roar Zama matchup. This is relevant since Volcanion has been shown on more offensive builds due to its matchup with Balance/Stall and Primarina.

-Some exploration of Volcanion includes Taunt + Wisp and Endure Custap.

-Volcanion holds a role in SV OU not replicable by anything in the tier and may see even higher usage if its defensive value finds more focus.

Are Unicorn Horns Still Magical?:
-Keldeo has had a long history in OU, and is a blue print to the modern offensive water.

-Keldeo’s raw power made it arguably banworthy in BW while being a strong pick in ORAS.

-Afterwards, Keldeo started steeping downwards, unable to compete with the shiny Ash Greninja and Watershifu while being threatened by the likes of Tapu Koko, Dragapult, Tapu Fini, and Scarf Kartana. It also cannot break past Toxapex, one of the biggest defensive walls from Gen 7 to 8.

-In Gen 9 there was some interesting changes. The Tapus and UBs were cut, Toxapex was heavily nerfed, and Vacuum Wave gave Keldeo sudden access to priority.

-There are still multiple threats that could outspeed and/or one-shot Keldeo (Valiant, Primarina, Deoxys-Speed, Raging Bolt, Ogerpon-W), but Keldeo has found a place on a few teams.

-Keldeo’s Water/Fighting typing is valuable defensively. Being able to switch into Samu, Gambit, and pivot around Darkrai is quite valuable on a wallbreaker.

-Vacuum Wave also sees value in a fast-paced meta, picking off Darkrai, Weavile, and pre-Tera Gambit.

-Keldeo can deal some surprising damage to defensive teams. With Tera Fighting it can even 2HKO Offensive Primarina and also Clodsire with Specs Secret Sword. Specs Tera Water Hydro Pump can straight up 2HKO bulky Prima.

-These traits are nice, but I have found this thing hard to splash on a team (hehe get it). Prima is generally the better pick, and Keldeo’s better speed, priority, and matchup with Kingambit doesn’t come together as often compared to what Prima provides.

-For the Gambit matchup, I often gravitate towards H-Samu, but Keldeo does show what it can do if the stars align.

Blue Rabbit (Azumarill, not the ice cream brand):
-Azumarill was a semi-popular pick in Home as a bulky Fairy and Water resist which was rare before options like Clef and Prima. This was important as it was one of the few mons that resisted both of Bax’s STABs. (This didn’t matter much since +2 Icicle Crash still ruined this.)

-In DLC2 though, it doesn’t get to shine as often. Slow, Spikes weak, and outclassed by other offensive Waters, namely Wogre who also blocks Aqua Jet. What Azumarill can do is good, but not particularly unique from its competition.

-Azumarill wants to run max Speed Adamant or Jolly for Corviknight or Skeledirge which cuts on its solid bulk.

-It might find some wiggle room every now and then. Strong priority is nice, it has a better matchup into Volc than Wogre due to hitting it on the physical side with Aqua Jet, and it’s a decent answer to Stall teams running bulky Grasses as a response to Wogre since Adamant Tera Fairy Play Rough 2HKOs most Stall staples, including a small roll of 2HKOing a max physically defensive Amoonguss after rocks.

-If Stall and Balance teams run more extreme Wogre measures, we could see Azumarill take advantage of that.

Hurricane Katrina:
-Mimikyu Stardust brought Quaquaval up as an alright mon with good traits.

-Quaquaval is weird, not just cause of its design but cause it feels like a mon that on paper should be a staple mon. Decent stats followed by a good ability and great defensive typing. Amazing STAB options with Aqua Step/Wave Crash and CC/Low Kick, support options like Encore, Rapid Spin, U-Turn and reliable recovery. 2 great setup moves with Bulk Up and Swords Dance along with Taunt. Great coverage with Axel, Brave Bird, and Knock Off.

-It should be great all things considered, in fact during the very early days of SV OU it was OU via usage, so what happened?

-It faces competition with Wogre and Samu as physical water types. Quaquaval’s stats are solid, but not great. 85/80/75 bulk is closer to Darkrai’s who is considered frail than something on the bulkier side like Watershifu.

-It has great utiloty but can never fit all of them. As a spinner it beats Samu, but you need to run Axel to actually spin vs Gliscor since it tanks an Aqua Step and Toxics you back.

-Quaq also struggles with mons like Raging Bolt, Wogre, Pult, Prima, etc.

-Encore though is very nice, but again, this isn’t unique to Quaq. Both Wogre and Samu in fact, get access to it.

-I think what Quaq needs to do is find its own specific role it can fill. One that neither those two can perform. Basically, Quaq might need to incorporate an offensive spinner role.

Combating The Tides
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-There has been a notable increase in bulky Grass resists like Amoonguss, Sinistcha, and even Wo-Chien on Stall/Balance.

-Corviknight is not bad into Wogre. Being able to avoid a 2HKO from unboosted Ivy after rocks, and being able to tank a +2 hit. Though Tera Water is likely one-shot this.

-Dragonite has a solid matchup into Wogre while also providing priority but needs to be careful with Samu and Prima.

-Rillaboom can threaten all three waters with Grassy Glide, but has to be wary of +2 Power Whip. Serperior is the closest to a hard counter.

-Bulky Serp can Glare Wogre and click Synthesis to heal itself up. It also outspeeds and threatens every other offensive Water.

-Grasspon is another mon that has solid matchups into these offensive waters but can’t directly switch into them. One great pairing is Mola + Grasspon since base Ogre can eat any hit from Wogre while it can Encore CM Prim.

-Raging Bolt can threaten all three with Thunderclap, but has to be wary of Prima’s Moonblast or Wogre’s Play Rough.

I think we will see more of these mons on bulkier teams, especially if Volc gets the Boot, and not the Heavy Duty-kind. Amoonguss also has some great matchups but also terrible ones like Gholdengo and Gliscor, but those can be covered by pairing it with a wallbreaker that exploits them like Samurott, Hoopa-U, Darkrai, etc. Sinistcha is criminally underrated for its ability to fix certain matchups, including walling Ursaluna which not even the Steel birds can consistently do. I said before that the tier needs viable sturdy Grass resists, and if these trends continue, that will end up being the case. Offensive Waters this gen are amazing due to their defensive niches being rewarded with raw uncontested power. Making use of the strengths of the Water typing that many others will before. First we had Starmie; then Keldeo, then Greninja, then Watershifu, and now Wogre/Prima/Samu.

I got another write-up coming, so stay tuned.